Hallow.com/mattfred, click the link in the description below. Steve Christie joins me this week to discuss how he got started in apologetics and why it is important. So we see here that messianic Psalms are often applied to Jesus in non-literal ways. So then the word adelphos could also apply in this case to describe people that they have the same adoptive father, Joseph, but different mothers, Josephs first wife and his second wife. assumes Paul retained a pharisaical identity. This next question comes from [Mcart 01:28:41] 1977. And the fact that Trent is saying that the holy family would not need to apply to that, hes imputing his Catholic theology into the text. So this question comes from Mitchell Godfrey, and Im going to just change his question a little because he said he is not going to be watching live. Or are they all good? And eventually those ended up being dropped throughout the debate. Primary meaning of the word adelphos can either refer to having the same biological mother or father. bitcoin wyohackathon bitcoinkn.com Trace Mayer Steve Christie Kraken.com. Yeah, no, Im grateful for Steve to take part in this. No, Im not saying that the use of the definite article means that Mary had only one child. Trent Horn vs Steve Christie Apocrypha Debate Recap & Discussion, Our Friend Steve Christie Gets Mitch Pacwa to Admit Abel to Zechariah Is About the Canon, Conversation On The Old Testament Canon With Steve ChristiePart 1, Conversation On The Old Testament Canon Part 2 with Steve Christie, Conversation On The Old Testament Canon with Steve ChristiePart 3, Gary Michutas Apocrypha Apocalypse Challenge ANSWERED! . Your generous donations are tax-deductible. So does this mean that James was Zebedees only son? When early followers of Jesus began to focus their adoration on Mary, rather than on Christ alone, Jesus responded, Rather blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it. Thank you. And then Steve, what are some objections you hear from Protestants to Catholics that you dont think are good? The immaculate conception, should we dogmatize should we not?, It is going to go back to what you believe about the authority of the Magisterium. I mean, its quite possible theyre born of different mothers, but theres no evidence for us to pursue that route. Christie also served as an analyst for The Score Television Network. On March 5, 2008 Christie retired from professional football. In fact, the term original sin like immaculate conception is not found in the Bible or in the church fathers until the time of St. Augustine. The Morning Ritual with Garret Lewis. I do. This means that there was no single, closed Hebrew canon during the time of Christ, and some Jews considered the deuterocanonical books to be Scripture. So multi-part question here. As the Apostle Paul wrote in his fourth chapter in his epistle to the Roman church, For what does Scripture say? And this includes Mary, who Jesus saved her by redeeming and delivering her from her sins. So just because this Psalm talks about my mothers sons, it doesnt imply that Mary gave birth to other children. And if that is your authority, thats what makes you a Protestant. Just want to offer an encouragement for those who are watching in the live chat or who watch this later. And Steve and I also both agreed that the universality of things like sin or death dont preclude exceptions. Philosophy program at Talbot. Steve Christie: According to Robert Sungenis, president of Catholic Apologetics International, unlike Jesus Ascension assumptions in the Bible are under the power of God not the individual being assumed. Mary had this early body. No, I can think of anything like that, but I would say that Marys status as being the God bearer would mean thered be many truths that are quite unique to her that we dont find in either old or New Testament. And these brothers still struggle on the same land 3,800 years later. And we can safely assume that Jesus saw the body of Moses on the Mount of Transfiguration. What son would not bring his mother back to life and would not bring her into paradise after her death, if he could. Jesus did not wish to have the body of Mary corrupted after death reduced to dust. If your unbaptized baby dies, and theyre not baptized, guess what? And yeah, I would just encourage others, Ive always said this, I dont see debates as a way to end an issue. Id have to respond individually. Also the Greek word for brother, its not always you to represent full brothers. It talks about the universality of sin, like in Romans 3:23, All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. But Paul is talking about the universality of personal sin between Jews and non-Jews. Given that the church both east and west had access to the same scriptures as us and were closer to the time of the apostles, how do you justify the church being in era for so long on a number of the Marion doctrines? So to talk about things that came up in this debate, there are things that came up that were not debating, things like Sola Scriptura, the history of the Marian dogmas. He serves as a staff apologist for Catholic Answers, where he specializes in teaching Catholics to graciously and persuasively engage those who disagree with them. Thank you very much, Steve. The danger of submitting to this fallible authority extends to submitting to their authority of their unbiblical view of salvation of infusion of grace through the sacraments, which also contradicts Scripture, which teaches justification by imputation of grace by faith alone. At what point does Marion devotion or veneration turn into idolatry? As far as Jesus brothers and sisters, I probably have studied that more than anything else and that would probably be the hardest for me to accept or maybe Mary being sinless because I mean, Trent, you got a seven year old, its like is as good as a kid as he is based on who his parents are. And of course, he might say, Well, what about Jesus? Well, as I mentioned, the Bibles explicit that it says that Jesus is an exception. A fully independent, lay-run, 501(c)(3) ministry that receives no funding from the institutional Church, we rely entirely on the generosity of everyday people like you to keep this website going with trustworthy, fresh, and relevant content. But the only thing we should offer on an altar is the body and blood of Jesus Christ, the lamb of God that he has given to us at Calvary. As an authorised Mesabi dealer and supplier of tube and shell . Rather, this counterfeit Mary developed over several centuries based on false typologies, which conflict with Scripture, no different than what Mormons, Jehovahs Witnesses, and Muslims have done with Jesus. So Steve is saying that the word adelphi, which means sister. So whether we are discussing the Marian dogmas, the papacy, the purpose of baptism or communion, or the biblical Canon, the real authority behind these debates is whether you trust in the sufficiency of God [inaudible 01:52:23] Scripture to reel itself to you or to the Magisterium, which often conflicts with it. Yeah. Peter - A Leader in Apologetics How many times have you heard the Apostle Peter portrayed as the brash fisherman whose mouth was always several steps ahead of his brain? Advertisement "God gave us the greatest apologist of this. So when were speaking of the adelphos, the brethren of the Lord, its used in some sort of non-standard way. The importance of discussing these Marian dogma is more than merely to debate them. Sep 29, 2021. Welcome to The Counsel of Trent Podcast, a production of Catholic Answers. In the Darby translation of the New Testament, where in second Thessalonians Chapter 2, when it talks about worshiping images and worshiping idols, it actually uses the word veneration and it literally can be translated worship. Trent, did you want to-. I thought about writing a book on-. Steven is related to James P Christie and Helen J Christie as well as 1 additional person. You can get both of those on Amazon. First Corinthians 15, in my opening statement, it says that there are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies and people who have earthly bodies are sown perishable, meaning corruptible in dishonor, meaning contempt, reproach. Moreover, there was diversity of thought among Jews until the second century after Christ over what constituted the Hebrew canon. Its nice to be able to go through all of these scripture passages. My first book is about not really of us, why do children of Christian parents abandon the faith? If she was immaculately conceived, wouldnt she have known that she was the version from Isaiah 7:14? Im not sure. Paul offers, he says in First Corinthians 7:5 through seven, Do not refuse one another, except by agreement for a season, to devote yourselves to prayer so that youre not tempted by lack of self control. The night before that, we did an examination of conscience together. When Jesus mother and brothers approach him later in verse 31, Jesus contrasts his biological brothers who dishonored him with his disciples, who were his spiritual brothers, who did the will of God. And I showed in my arguments that his claim that adelphei can only mean uterine sister of the same mother, or figurative, are simply not held up. Mary was able to do something that Jesus didnt. As a believing Jew and Christian, Mary would not have disobeyed God who commanded married couples to be fruitful and multiply, nor would she have deprived her husband as the apostle Paul wrote, the wife must fulfill her duty to her husband and does not have authority over her own body so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self control. 1 Corinthians 7:3-5.. In Speaking for the Unborn, Dr. Steven Christie offers very clear, convincing, and often witty answers to almost every possible argument in favor of abortion. He graduated from UNIVERSITY OF MIAMI / SCHOOL OF MEDICINE in 1995. Well, again, this is the exception. The relevance would be that you are using it. With the Bills, he would become one of the game's top kickers. After leaving the Bills after the 2000 season, Christie played with the Chargers and Giants. Verse eighteen describes the enemies of the righteous one, saying, If the righteous one is the son of God, God will help him and deliver him from the hand of his foes, which parallels the Jewish authorities taunts during Jesus crucifixion recorded in Matthew 27:43: He trusts in God; let God deliver him now, if he desires him; for he said, I am the Son of God.. It comes from agoyforJesus who Im now beginning to assume is your co-laborer. You talked a little about in Adam, all die, but notice here there are exceptions. Now, does the Bible teach that everyone has sinned? It is not mentioned in any book of the Bible, protocanonical or deuterocanonical, nor in any ancient nonbiblical witnesses such as Josephus or Philo. Because once again, not every truth of the faith, not every truth about first century life, for example, has been handed down to us. But Paul stopped being a Pharisee after he became a Christian. If Mary kept the law, she could not be made righteous since righteousness does not come from keeping the law, but through Christs death. Jesus Christ did not inherit original sin, but he became sin which is why the father had to turn away from him. The fact that Mary died does not show that she had original sin or that she inherited original sin or that she committed a personal sin. So our listeners can go there to read that. In his recent book Why Protestant Bibles Are Smaller, Protestant apologist Steve Christie claims that all Christians should accept the Protestant Old Testament canon and reject the deuterocanonical books of Judith, Tobit, Baruch, Wisdom, Sirach, 1and 2 Maccabees, and portions of Daniel and Esther. Thanks for correcting me on that, Trent. Steve. The first man Adam is from the earth, earthy. Campbell states that when it comes to Josephus claims about a universal Hebrew canon, as well as an entire manuscript tradition that had never been altered, Josephuss rhetoric has run ahead of reality. So Ill send you a link, you could put that [inaudible 01:35:07] as well. It may be used this way in Acts 25:21 to say that Paul was held in custody until he was sent to Rome, even though he was still in Roman custody after that point. Other doctors like Ambrose, Augustine, Irenaeus and others in the early church, like Tertullian, Origen, Hillary of Portier, and seven popes believed Mary was either conceived in sin or committed acts of personal sin, including Thomas Aquinas, as late as the 13th century. Sure. It doesnt even imply that. They were committed to Sola scriptura but we also have to remember that even though they were formers, they were also Roman Catholics and their issue with Romans was not about Marian dogmas, it was about the authority of scripture over the authority of the church. He might bring it up in his rebuttal. Steve, youre going to go first with five minutes and then Trent. Morgan Stanley, +4 more. Because thats what the Catholic Answers encyclopedia states. That was a really well articulated opening statement and I appreciate it. If anything like the parents hes a good kid, but I cant imagine by the age of seven that his oldest child hasnt sinned one time. Im just asking is there an example of anywhere in scripture where its used to describe siblings they have the same mother but they have different fathers? So Steve, we agree And I didnt mean to bring up the dogma Theotokos mother of God in any kind of underhanded way or way to go against our previous agreement because when people hear Marian dogmas, they think of the four of them. Geoffrey Stephen "Steve" Christie (born November 13, 1967) is a former Canadian American football placekicker in the National Football League, who, as a member Steve Christie - Top podcast episodes Nice to have you. Lets see here. Mounce writes, Nicodemus politely says Jesus is a teacher; but when Nicodemus does not understand the necessity of a spiritual rebirth, Jesus questions his status as the teacher, an authoritative rabbi (A Teacher or The Teacher?). But renowned Protestant Greek grammarian Bill Mounce says Jesus reference to Nicodemus as the teacher of Israel is actually a sarcastic rebuke. And I also showed his other arguments to try to show that Mary gave birth to other children, such as from Psalm 69, Luke chapter two, as well as the idea that Matthew 1:25 requires that she and Joseph had sexual relations. And so when we look to Mary, we always follow the words that she uttered to the servants at the Wedding Feast of Cana, Do whatever he tells you. And Jesus tells us to honor our father and mother, and we should honor his father and mother. Moreover, his arguments for a shorter Old Testament canon are contradicted by the biblical and historical evidence. The Bible doesnt say that apostles are baptized, but it certainly seems quite fitting that they would be given everything else. I agree that it is used predominantly of Jesus, talking about salvation from sin, but I would say read the context. The son of Jonah? The fact that this is used of Mary is very unusual. Well start with you, Steve. . Yeah. If you want to go more into that, my book, The Case for Catholicism has a chapter on the immaculate conception. Agreed. He became sinner. Geoffrey Stephen Christie (born November 13, 1967) [1] is a former Canadian American football placekicker in the National Football League (NFL), who, as a member of the Buffalo Bills, became known for his ability to kick clutch field goals, even in poor weather. Thank you, Steve. Mark - Hello Christie, thank you so much for . One other point that I would raise is that other arguments that Protestants use to try to show that Jesus had brothers simply dont work. So I would actually tell people to focus more on that. They also allude to events and stories contained in these texts. Calvin did not believe in the perpetual virginity of Mary. You just have to join locals in the same way youd have to join Twitter or Facebook to get access to it. So hes just talking about this birthright that he mentions about 10 versus later. 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