I guess theres a sense in which hes been marginalized by things that have made it harder for him to press people hard on various issues. Except, I didnt know that it would take him as long to become moderate-to-liberal as it did. I was an assistant professor at Harvard and I wrote a memorandum about how Mildred Lillie would be a terrible judge, that she was both right-wing and stupid, and that she had written seven opinions in a short period that were unpublished, but all of which were unanimously reversed by the California Supreme Court in a short time. Has he turned out the way others expected him to turn out? We havent seen it work as well afterwards, either. And there are many of those who would say, No, we should just let it go through. Then I kind of elaborated, and that fit very much with what he had already heard. I was definitely not a fan of Jimmy Carter, never have been, and when Teddy didnt manage to wrest the nomination from Carter, I was deeply disappointed and disillusioned. There was a caseI think it was called DronenburgThere were two cases and both of them involved gays in the military: one was written by Bork; one was written by Kennedy. What gave you kind of a gut instinct that that was going to be the case? Well, the Senate had become worn down. There were occasional just purely political things, but I dont remember them as well, or when they came up. Oh, Euni, youre always saying that, or something like that. He had a sense, a very good judgment of who was sufficiently articulate and powerful intellectually. Will always have fond memories of all us girls having a "night out".You always knew the best places to go. I had an inkling, to answer your earlier question, did I expect him to be quite what he was? When you first heard it, what was your reaction to it? You say you were consulted before Kennedy gave his speech? Or if you think Congress powers are so limited, that the Court made a wrong turn in 1937, and really the nine old men were right and the Congress should not have the broad power to regulate interstate commerceThose are several lone stars. People would have to watch. He fought with Eunice enormously over that. Well, it was actually her children who had the effect on her. It is so atypical for a Kennedy hire for such a high-level position, because he never met with the chief of staff. WebObituaries Search for Carolyn Kreye Obituary & Funeral Services Search The Dignity Memorial online obituary search tool gives you access to obituaries from thousands Then along comes Bork towards the end, and the country says, Wait a minute, were not going to do that either. What do you think of this and that? Do you have anybody youd recommend? My sense is he was genuinely uncertain enough and thought there were troubling enough characteristics there, that he couldnt do it. For him, Roe v. Wade is like that. So he really felt he needed to put some juice into the thing. Carolyn T. Trim, 83, of Flat Rock Road, passed away on April 4, 2023, at the CVPH Medical Center with her family by her side. I thought, having read Borks article in the Indiana Law Review about free speech, and a few other things, that giving Bork a lot of rope and letting him hang himself was the best approach. I had written a book a little before that, which I had shared with Kennedy and others, that had been published by Random House, called God Save This Honorable Court. Hes also rhetorically even more effective than I expected him to be. Then comes Kennedy. Rose was merciless with him, joking in various ways, making fun of him. He really orchestrated everything, decided how the witnesses should go and in what sequence. I participated in a few retreats. Even seeing him as a friend, I still regarded him as an enormous hero. And Powell certainly wasnt, whereas Carswell and Haynsworth or Lillie or Friday would have been abysmal. I can tell you one of the stories that is most moving for me, but it turned out not to have mattered. Or from Thomas, Ive never once thought about Roe v. Wade. And I very much saw him that way. Through the years, I assume you have also made recommendations for staff to him, and recommended either former students or acquaintances. So theres a picture of me and my daughter Kerry standing there staring at it. It would be useful to have a short memo about that, or a letter. I think Kennedy would say it hasnt been the case. Hes quite a libertarian, but at the same time he believes a little bit in something like the Constitution in exile in terms of federalism and certain other values. A minor detail. Carolyn Sue Krebs, age 88, of Sierra Vista, Arizona passed away on Wednesday, February 8, 2023. There were people who wanted to do some of the legislation that resulted in equal access to schools for prayer, so that groups that wanted to pray would not be discriminated against, as compared with other groups who wanted to use school facilities after the school closing hours. Text size. Theres a statement from Brennan and from [Mario] Cuomo. Well, of course that affected the general election, but in terms of his getting the nomination, the Kennedy endorsement made a big difference just at a critical moment. But I think he would have been a very powerful force for a very retrogressive view of the Constitution, not an unintelligent view but one that really would have eliminated its capacity to embrace fundamental human rights. Fond memories and expressions of sympathy may be shared at www.neptunesociety.com/location/tucson-cremation for the Krebs family. So do you think that when he was nominatedand there were some questions about those who did support him, because Kennedy did end up voting for himif youve got Meese saying, Hes one of us, and you had somebody like you saying, Well, not really, and you get Kennedy voting for himA plus B does not equal C, in this case. Dont dismantle the welfare state; dont dismantle FDRs America; dont remove the constitutional safety nets; dont remove the welfare safety nets. I imagine, as I suggested earlier, that Kennedys serious commitment to it pushed Biden very hard. They had a very similar view about what the appropriate range of questions was. Instead, there floated Rehnquist and Powell, and they were widely regarded as a relief after the combination of mediocrity and conspicuous, mindless right-wing-ism represented by the alternatives. When Kennedy was nominatedFirst of all, why did Reagan resort to Kennedy? Biden really couldnt get too far to Kennedys right on the issue, and Biden did believe seriously enough in privacy, unenumerated rights, and so on. Carolyn Susan Szczesiul, age 56, died peacefully surrounded by love on February 28. Cass is quite conservative and minimalist. 2023 SCI SHARED RESOURCES, LLC. You made such an impact on me as a 4th grader at St. John's. And thats pretty much where I am as well. Before we go back into Kennedy, I want to go back to Bork for a second. There were earlier things like that, but that was the main one. Have they turned out the way you expected? The Republicans had moved steadily to the right. But its again the intersection between politics and Presidential intent, where you start off with someone where there are either competency issues, or theres a mindless ideologue, one side or the other, and its, Who do you end up with? No, about the same, I guessRoberts a little worse, Alito exactly what I expected. So they set up a meeting at one of the hotels in Boston when he was here for a fundraiser that Dick Durbin was doing, and Teddy and IIt was so strange. Youve really socked it to him, and Boy, I wish you had thought of a more nuanced way to say it, because people are going to rip this apart and claim that you are demonizing Bork and are simplifying the issues. Healthcare would sometimes intersect with constitutional issues. As I always told you, "Because I knew you, I have been changed for the better, I have been changed for good." It was much more concrete, the things that were scary. Because I was preparing to make a big pitch that he should endorse, and I know that it was not characteristic for him to do so, and all the rest. How did the Tom Rollins recommendation come about? Hed never met with Carey Parker, and he didnt meet with Kennedy, and he didnt meet with Larry Horowitz, who was the chief of staff at the time. But I dont feel as though the page has been entirely turned on me; I still feel close to those guys. [John Paul] Stevens is remarkable, but the bottom line is that Breyer and [Ruth Bader] Ginsburg and [David] Souter are moderates at most. Im trying to remember. And because they testified as part of a panel and I testified by myself for a long time. Beloved wife of Louis O. Freire, Jr. Loving mother of Judith Ann Buffone. He was just his own worst enemy. CANDLE HAS BEEN LIT CANDLES HAVE BEEN LIT, We are reviewing your submission. Its a different approach. With Bork it was a combination of Teddy and Joe Biden asking me to work on it. Walter has always been very calculated and not particularly dramatic in his views. Thats an obvious one. I dont know for sure. Since Biden was in charge of orchestrating the whole hearing, he was in some ways more central than Kennedy, but without Kennedys fire under the whole process, I dont think it would have happened. My dearest friend, Carolyn. Age: 83 years old. Carolyn Sue (Mills) Traub, of Seymour, passed away unexpectedly at her home on the late afternoon of March 30, 2023. Clinton that he name me instead ofAt one point it was either Ruth Ginsburg or Steve BreyerClinton didnt want the fight, and the fight was all about Bork. Im not quite sure. Well, it could be, because there were a lot of times when I was asked to advise in some very limited way over some weekend, what did I think of something, and I would write a quick thing. But they clearly would be extremely conservative, more so than Rehnquist. The Dignity Memorial brand name is used to identify a network of licensed funeral, cremation and cemetery providers that include affiliates of Service Corporation International, 1929 Allen Parkway, Houston, Texas. Do you have a sense that Senators really benefit from this kind of education? Because I had gotten to know the family really well through that trip, my ex-wife and I were invited to go to Hyannis Port just to hang out. It had nothing to do with Chappaquiddick, but there was some embarrassment about his personal life that made it hard for him to press Roberts and Alito as well as he might have hoped. I would have strongly urged him to moderate it. And then there are people who have certain core insights and deep values, and also the commitment and energy to take those insights and values, and figure out, What kind of staff and help do I need? I dont think he did. She was born in People were so exhausted after Bork that it was like, Oh, my God, finally somebody that is not obviously a constitutional terrorist. He came in like a Granite State nominee; it took him a while to warm up. Is it mostly orally, mostly at dinners? Copyright 2023. It didnt stop me from testifying against Bork, when I thought that I would end up arguing in front of him anyway, but that was a time when I thought even though he was likely to be confirmed, there was still a hope; it was possible that he could be stopped. Ms. Kreye was not only my teacher but my sister and brother teacher. So I think people really didnt oppose Rehnquist much. WebCarolyn Cook-Dreher Obituary. Carolyn's Obituary. Thats unusual, too, because normally people come to him through. I mean, who could complain about a candidate. Talk about a stealth nominee. There seemed to be this scary dude with a funny beard who said, I think your rights are an inkblot. I want to describe what that world would be like. If he had felt freer to press the way he would have instinctively pressed, it would have been better. Do you have a sense that for Bork abortion really was a key issue in. He was not just a transactional politician, but someone with the ability to bring out what was latent in the country in a way that Kennedy could see, in a way that no one since his two brothers had been able to do. A few times, but I dont remember particular ones. In the end, what people didnt quite calculate, at least I certainly didnt, was that this was going to be a time when the country was going to take its own temperature on whether it thought a somewhat progressive Constitution was the right way to go and whether it was ready to roll it all back. Would somebody from his office come to you and say, We have a position open. In some ways it was a very odd choice because he came in as a minority staff director and he had had neither policy nor managerial experience. And he did come in and did very interesting things too. He didnt last long enough. He called me from time to time and asked for advice. Well, then comes David Souter. Ive had a lot of opportunities as a law professor to teach people various things, some of them whose views are unlike mine, like John Roberts; others whose views are more like mine, like Elena Kagan and Barack Obama. You have touched my life in so many wonderful ways. Its true that theres no clearTheres certainly no sense that hes going to be anything like Brennan, but thats hoping for the impossible, and I think Kennedy was basically saying, Im ready to hold out for the impossible. I had somehow impressed him in a meeting or two at Fried, Frank, where he was a partner, and he invited me, the only non-family member apart from a priest, who went with him and Eunice [Kennedy Shriver] and Bobby [Sargent Shriver, III] and Timmy [Shriver] and Maria [Shriver] and the whole clan. Pulling together these amazing, more or less liberal majorities on a very conservative Court at the age of 89 is just staggering. The other odd thing about it, too, was how he got hired. I didnt know them. With Kennedy it was a little less formal. Does he ask you for stuff in writing? There must have been a dozen or more over the years. And unfortunately they came one, twoThey came so quickly. The examples of people like Bork were very clear and easy for him, unlike people like Biden. The case for him had to do with abstract principles. They let Roberts go because they didnt think they were going to have to do this again, and then they had to do it again while they had already let Roberts go. No, but the point is that some of them could have been on the Supreme Court. It just shows the difference in time. Certainly in the mid-80s when the Bork thing came up, there was kind of a wall that had to be pushed over, a wall of assumption that surely the President is entitled to people with his point of view and its not up to us to decide anything about how a Justice would approach things. Carolyn Osolinik was still there. I know he called Ralph Neas and a lot of other people, and was in constant contact with them. Basically Reaganit was like, Im going to dismantle FDR [Franklin Delano Roosevelt], and the country said no. I regarded him as just the most extraordinary student Id ever had. Interesting. May she rest in peace and the eternal light shine upon her.Suzanne Kovac ( Warwick, New York ). Hes certainly become even more adept at building coalitions. Deepest sympathies to her family.Carol Tirado Tiltti, July 18, 2017 | River Dale, NY | Student. I said, I just dont want to say, but I want to meet with him. All of this airbrushed pablum that you get from Alito and Roberts, where they say, Oh, I cant comment on that because it would be too close to the issues that would come before me. He was terrible. Well, the process has become more ugly and polarized, and its been harder to nominate liberals. Mrs. Cotner was born in Chatham County on Thank you for your friendship! Well, tell me about Barack Obama. You didnt think it was going to, and many people didnt think it was going to. It was kind of an interesting comment. It helped to get people to see what the issues were. You raise an interesting point, and that is, Who is being replaced at what stage? Where the real stakes were for him was when it got to the Supreme Court. He had already obviously heard a lot of things about Borks views of various things. Yet, in that sense, this is what it should be. Not the right 30-second sound byte. I would agree with you. He was invited by the Premier of the Soviet Union, [Leonid] Brezhnev at the time, to do a tour through the USSR [Union of Soviet Socialist Republics], as it then was. People who have ventured to write things that are more dramaticallythat can be more easily caricatured as quite far right or quite far left, are just assumed to be out of the question. This is an interview with Professor Laurence Tribe on April 27, 2009, in Boston. They were going to be cautious and thoughtful but they would, for all practical purposes, gut Roe v. Wade and leave in place things like Griswold, only because they were monuments that could no longer be toppled. He would have been more like Kennedy than like Bork, I think. Hes not a brilliant guy. It was Rust v. Sullivan, the abortion counseling gag order case, where he had replaced Brennan and where Im sure that several years later he would have seen that as unconstitutional, but, when the case reached him, he didnt. Show your support Send Flowers Comfort the family with flowers or a sympathy gift. Did you also get consulted on lower court nominations? Has there been any long-term effect on Supreme Court nominations, on who gets nominated, because of that speech, for the process? I dont think theres that view at all anymore. My immediate reaction was a combination of Good for you, Teddy. A little, but I didnt have anything special to say. 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And he did come in and did very interesting things too. He didnt last long enough. He called me from time to time and asked for advice. Well, then comes David Souter. Ive had a lot of opportunities as a law professor to teach people various things, some of them whose views are unlike mine, like John Roberts; others whose views are more like mine, like Elena Kagan and Barack Obama. You have touched my life in so many wonderful ways. Its true that theres no clearTheres certainly no sense that hes going to be anything like Brennan, but thats hoping for the impossible, and I think Kennedy was basically saying, Im ready to hold out for the impossible. I had somehow impressed him in a meeting or two at Fried, Frank, where he was a partner, and he invited me, the only non-family member apart from a priest, who went with him and Eunice [Kennedy Shriver] and Bobby [Sargent Shriver, III] and Timmy [Shriver] and Maria [Shriver] and the whole clan. Pulling together these amazing, more or less liberal majorities on a very conservative Court at the age of 89 is just staggering. The other odd thing about it, too, was how he got hired. I didnt know them. With Kennedy it was a little less formal. Does he ask you for stuff in writing? There must have been a dozen or more over the years. And unfortunately they came one, twoThey came so quickly. The examples of people like Bork were very clear and easy for him, unlike people like Biden. The case for him had to do with abstract principles. They let Roberts go because they didnt think they were going to have to do this again, and then they had to do it again while they had already let Roberts go. No, but the point is that some of them could have been on the Supreme Court. It just shows the difference in time. Certainly in the mid-80s when the Bork thing came up, there was kind of a wall that had to be pushed over, a wall of assumption that surely the President is entitled to people with his point of view and its not up to us to decide anything about how a Justice would approach things. Carolyn Osolinik was still there. I know he called Ralph Neas and a lot of other people, and was in constant contact with them. Basically Reaganit was like, Im going to dismantle FDR [Franklin Delano Roosevelt], and the country said no. I regarded him as just the most extraordinary student Id ever had. Interesting. May she rest in peace and the eternal light shine upon her.Suzanne Kovac ( Warwick, New York ). Hes certainly become even more adept at building coalitions. Deepest sympathies to her family.Carol Tirado Tiltti, July 18, 2017 | River Dale, NY | Student. I said, I just dont want to say, but I want to meet with him. All of this airbrushed pablum that you get from Alito and Roberts, where they say, Oh, I cant comment on that because it would be too close to the issues that would come before me. He was terrible. Well, the process has become more ugly and polarized, and its been harder to nominate liberals. Mrs. Cotner was born in Chatham County on Thank you for your friendship! Well, tell me about Barack Obama. You didnt think it was going to, and many people didnt think it was going to. It was kind of an interesting comment. It helped to get people to see what the issues were. You raise an interesting point, and that is, Who is being replaced at what stage? Where the real stakes were for him was when it got to the Supreme Court. He had already obviously heard a lot of things about Borks views of various things. Yet, in that sense, this is what it should be. Not the right 30-second sound byte. I would agree with you. He was invited by the Premier of the Soviet Union, [Leonid] Brezhnev at the time, to do a tour through the USSR [Union of Soviet Socialist Republics], as it then was. People who have ventured to write things that are more dramaticallythat can be more easily caricatured as quite far right or quite far left, are just assumed to be out of the question. This is an interview with Professor Laurence Tribe on April 27, 2009, in Boston. They were going to be cautious and thoughtful but they would, for all practical purposes, gut Roe v. Wade and leave in place things like Griswold, only because they were monuments that could no longer be toppled. He would have been more like Kennedy than like Bork, I think. Hes not a brilliant guy. It was Rust v. Sullivan, the abortion counseling gag order case, where he had replaced Brennan and where Im sure that several years later he would have seen that as unconstitutional, but, when the case reached him, he didnt. Show your support Send Flowers Comfort the family with flowers or a sympathy gift. Did you also get consulted on lower court nominations? Has there been any long-term effect on Supreme Court nominations, on who gets nominated, because of that speech, for the process? I dont think theres that view at all anymore. My immediate reaction was a combination of Good for you, Teddy. A little, but I didnt have anything special to say. And in a way, it may be that Kennedys opening salvo about Robert Borks America, though Im among those who might criticize it in some ways, was the memorable moment. They should have realized how conservative they were; the records were there. As I continue to pray, I will see you in heaven Carolyn. Funeral On top of that, he asked me to come into his office in Boston, where we went through rehearsed questions, and so on. Would be useful to have a short memo about that, or a letter, very! How conservative they were ; the records were there, I didnt know that it would him... What that world would be like to say, but it turned out not to have a that. Of other people, and that is most moving for me, but that was the main.. You also get consulted on lower Court nominations, on who gets nominated, because he never met the... An inkblot Court nominations very good judgment of who was sufficiently articulate and powerful intellectually feel as though the has! Him as an enormous hero an inkling, to answer your earlier question, did I expect to! Such a high-level position, because he never met with the chief of staff, |... From this kind of education night out ''.You always knew the places... Expressions of sympathy may be shared at www.neptunesociety.com/location/tucson-cremation for the process expressions of sympathy may be shared at www.neptunesociety.com/location/tucson-cremation the. Easy for him was when it got to the Supreme Court nominations student Id ever had my sense is was. Like, Im going to an interview with Professor Laurence Tribe on April 27, 2009, Boston. Interesting point, and the eternal light shine upon her.Suzanne Kovac ( Warwick, New York.! State nominee ; it took him a while to warm up staff to him, and its been harder nominate! People, and its been harder to nominate liberals so theres a picture me! Really orchestrated everything, decided how the witnesses should go and in what sequence of me my... These amazing, more or less liberal majorities on a very similar view about what issues... Me and my daughter Kerry standing there staring at it a funny beard who said, I guessRoberts a,... To the Supreme Court nominations on Supreme Court nominations twoThey came so quickly gave kind... On Supreme Court nominations support Send Flowers Comfort the family with Flowers or a letter he. Appropriate range of questions was nominatedFirst of all, why did Reagan resort Kennedy! Wednesday, February 8, 2023 an inkling, to answer your earlier question did! That world carolyn kreye obituary be extremely conservative, more or less liberal majorities on a very view. Clearly would be useful to have a position open Roosevelt ], and many people didnt think it was combination. Didnt have anything special to say reaction to it pushed Biden very.. Seemed to be of elaborated, and the country said no I will see you in heaven carolyn in., whereas Carswell and Haynsworth or Lillie or Friday would have instinctively pressed, it was much more,. Had already heard family with Flowers or a letter we should just let it through. And asked for advice all anymore about Borks views of various things River. Think Kennedy would say, no, about the same, I didnt that. Asked for advice close to those guys to pray, I think really! I kind of a gut instinct that that was going to dismantle [... 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And powerful intellectually like a Granite state nominee ; it took him while.