Where do I stand on the 9mm vs .45ACP debate? Muzzle Energy Calculation You can calculate kinetic energy using the classic formula you memorized in Physics class. I cant say how other .40 S&W feel/shoot, but any of my friends that have shot the 96 love its accuracy and low recoil. Practice, practice, practice. I started shooting at age 8 I am now 64, aferter seeing many debates on this topic, here is my own opinion the best pistol or rifle for self defense is the one that you can shoot the best. Advertisement cookies are used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns. The attacker broke in through that door and the lady emptied her revolver into the guy before he was stopped. Lots of bullets. A range instructor at Camp Pendleton once told me most would-be handgun shooters would be more effective hurling the pistol itself at the enemy rather than trying to aim and fire it. Why? I live in less free country, I still can carry my pistol, but EU wants to limit my magazines (blah blah blah). We measured the velocity for all 40 rounds using a Competition Dynamics Prochrono chronograph placed 10 feet away from the muzzle. But my favorate is 45acp. The 9mm carbine is rapidly replacing the 12-gauge shotgun in many areas of law enforcement, because it holds more ammunition, makes hits more easily, and has negligible recoil. If YOU Do!!". I would think soldiers in fire fights face similar circumstances, except with more opponents who may also have body armor, which would favor the 9mm further, since it pierces armor better. So I purchased big bore gun :D and hope for rapid blood pressure drop which will cause unconsciousness, or that this bullet will go trought and break spine. I keep ARX 118 grain ammo in my Glock 30 (10+1) which is 45ACP. : If you seek peace, prepare for war. This was the motto of its original manufacturer Deutsche Waffen- und Munitionsfabriken. While a 9mm is discussing the situation A 45ACP ends the Debate..with prejudice. PS. That would explain why unbelieving (LOST) people in "HELL" "BURN, but NEVER BURN-UP"..!!!"??? A DOE would show interactions between variables that are more significant than a single variable alone. I can only say this: When your life - and the lives you protect - depend on 18 ready available bullets, youre going to wish for more. New developments not only improved the 9mm, modern 45ACP can make a 1 hole and 50% more energy delivered on target. This really is a science, but I benefited from reading a lot before I purchased, whereas my son didn't. Thank you. Returns Policy. Whichever caliber you shoot most accurately. Notes: Sellier & Bellot pistol ammunition has long been respected for its quality, precision and reliability. This anonymous data helps us to better understand users' needs and customize the website accordingly. Where I grew up an old timer who was still an incredibly good shot was asked which he would rather be holding in a gunfight. I'm building a couple of .45s now. ), .45 ACP (447 ft. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://gundata.org/images/fbi-handgun-ballistics.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjW3I71693mAhVGZM0KHXzxCngQFjAAegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw10DVrk4SswQsgAgCh-Cf28 My defense weapon is the 45 at this time. I'm sticking with ole tried and true 1911. What exactly will 50 feet per second actually do for self defense reasons? And every gun owner has their preference. He then asked, "If you got shot, which of these two would hope you were shot with? The faster bullet will move an artery out of the way where a slower bullet like .45 will take the artery out . Next, speed of follow-up shots doesn't come from the caliber. If a guy rushes you with a knife and you shoot him with a few rounds of 22lr in the chest he'll probably die. What does "slow" mean? When getting my LTC the instructor was gushing all over it because I was the only one without a Glock, which I actually do have as well, but just love the 96 so much. The point that the wound tracks are almost the same according to the 2014 report is very surprising to me and frankly illogical looking at the bullet size, both uncollapsed and collapsed. The fact of the high muzzle velocity will lower the enteral damage done to organs . I prefer the "slow" rolling impulse from a 45 than the more "snappy" 9mm recoil. Skeet shooting and duck hunting are his all-time favorite hobbies, but he's more than ready to talk your ear off about collecting and sport shooting as well. And because 9mm ammo is so relatively inexpensive, it permits its shooter to practice longer and more often. Speed is an important factor for ballistic performance, impacting accuracy, trajectory, energy, and penetration. But if both of these two are more than your are able to shoot comfortably, consider the 380. One thing I see a lot of people point to as proof that the 9mm is nearly identical to the .45 ACP in performance is the FBI testing protocol. Practicing at a public range is not ideal. Fortunately plenty exists. I keep my 870 close by for those rats that might want to drop by uninvited Hello everyone, When comparing the two handguns, its important to note that the 9mm hasnt become better than the .45 ACPit just caught up to it. If you THINK you can shoot accurately while adrenalized, then you're whistling past the graveyard. I've personally had the experience of using a Thompson .45 submachine gun (A1 army variant) full automatic. you can not have any mags that hold more then 10 rounds, so I had to buy 10 round mags for the model 59 and at the same time I found 10 round ags for the m1991A. I then fired the same round into the post at an angle from an HK-94 (16 barrel). A picture is worth a 1,000 wordsnewself-defense 9mm ammo opens up to create some nasty possible wound channels to stop attackers in their tracks. It also delivers additional felt recoil and comes with slightly higher recoil velocity. This length ratio maximizes the projectile velocity. The 919mm Parabellum (also known as 9mm Parabellum or 9mm Luger or simply 9mm) is a rimless, tapered firearms cartridge . With handguns, its all about holes: how many, how big, how deep, and where hit. Regarding "damage" - both have about the same amount of energy, both leave indistinguishable wound tracks in pliable human tissue - we're not clay. It's this ability of 9mm to produce enough energy and not over penetrate which makes me think it competes with the big guys. But then a .22 in the eye works to. We also use Power Factor in competition which is bullet weight X velocity / 1000. If I want range and penetration, I'll grab one of my rifles. Practice both bullseye and tactical shooting skills. The 9mm Luger has a muzzle velocity of 1,120 feet-per-second (fps), while the .357 Magnum touts a muzzle velocity of 1,240 fps, despite the fact that its bullet is 34 grains heavier. You are legally responsible for every round that leaves your weapon! Whatever you repeat thousands of times will be available for use. Both in MY OPINION have similar kick to them. There are videos and statistics comparing 357 and 45 acp. Grip circumference on the 9mm and ,45 pistols is not that different. The 9mm features some interesting advantages. Hornady has an XTP +P 135gr that is an excellent design. .45 all the way for me. Enough to spawn sayings youll see all over forums (and t-shirts). I have shot drywall and 2 inch plywood and have gotten little penetration from 5 yds with a Smith and Wesson 645. white box Winchester was the ammo.. I don't think the debate will ever be answered. However, I have to admit youre way ahead of us with the second amendment! When you said buy both at the end I was thinking .45 for carry and 9mm for backup. Try firing one off indoors in the dark with no ear protection. Knock down power is quantifiable by the Taylor Knock Down Index. I'm not making this up. Ill be anxiously waiting to hear your findings. FWIW, I find the 45 recoil is "smoother", whereas 9 & 40 seem to be "sharper", making the muzzle flip harder to recover from. It's all about the ammo. It gives perspective from both sides. I recently moved to my country property and am living alone. The big difference in the 9mm and .45 which is often overlooked is if you have less than a 4 barrel on your 9mm even the the best (law enforcement grade) ammo under preformed; which negates the smaller 9mms, I like and own both and both have a mission. While the 9's, well, they kept on fighting on theor feet. If you looking for a slugger for something like car defense or home defense. BTW, I like the 9mm and .45 pretty much equally and have both calibers. The time fighting is a poor metric for how wars are won. We all know by now of Mr. Schumacher's killing of a large bear with a 9mm. Joe Miller's Navy instructor was just another of those guys who spread myths based in sentimentality instead of facts. Research the World War I live cow test called the "ThompsonLaGarde Tests". Karl, youre embarrassing yourself with this vendetta. http://www.ballistics101.com/45_acp.php JNB. It has a capacity of 15+1 and it's a 45 ACP. So I agree with having both. Thanks for time well spent in putting this together, when we mix work with enjoyment we all benefit. There, I fixed it. However neither caliber is magical, as some may believe. In other words, when computing energy, you half the mass (as it counts less) and square or exponentially increase the velocity (because it accounts for more). It depends on the body armor (type and quality) as well as the ammunition used. Bigger holes are better ones. A myth that TV and movies have given the world is that American warfighters won WWII, but really the amount of American blood contributed to the war effort was comparably insignificant -- especially compared to the Soviets. If you want to make a mess, the sig elite 230 g is a show stopper. And I don't mean keeping your one pistol in a sock drawer. I can't imagine that trade would be so great either. And the one kept loaded in the bio-lock case bedside is the Colt's Government Issue, with 2 clips of Hornady Critical Defense alongside. That is the EXCEPTION!! I also carry the Ruger LC9 as a backup. But after doing extensive research I've come to the conclusion that the ultimate home defense gun other than a 12 gauge would be a 45 pistol like the CMMG Banshee with a suppressor. Muzzle velocity is generally stated in feet per second, or fps. However, many European brands are listed in meters per second, which is abbreviated as either mps or m/s. For consistency, well use fps for the rest of this article like the red-blooded Americans we happen to be! That has nothing to do with WWII and everything to do with people not remembering or even wanting reminders of our past to keep them on the right path. In .45 acp, with 230 grain target rounds we started shooting the same targets we shot with the 9mm and 38 spl, well guess what With advancements in technology since its introduction at the turn of the 20th century, the 9mm is able to deliver similar terminal performance to rounds with heavier bullets such as the 45 ACP and 40 S&W. A .gov website belongs to an official government organization in the United States. Like the logo of a Very Familiar training range: They needed a standard that could be applied to everyone - not what was best per person. 9mm on average has more energy l. It also has more penetration. Thanks for your opinion, its valid. An average muzzle velocity of 9mm ammunition, that being the energy the bullet leaves the barrel with, is around 1,200 feet per second (commonly abbreviated as fps or ft/s). I have them all. .45 is, by nature, subsonic. . By Josh Wayner Nobody needs a gun. +P and +P+ rounds are available as well. I would most def go with 9mm for carry You never know how many attackers you will be dealing with & if they all have weapons themselves, the more ammo you can shoot the better Plus if you scared of not a enough knock down power with the 9mm. You can not spell and have no idea what punctuation is. 30% is being nice. With a revolver if you get a dud its no big deal. I literally just bought one of these. of energy at the muzzle. technology have helped the 9mm improve by leaps and bounds over the past 30 years. As for the rounds, force x mass = power. The same advancements that the 9mm has received, so did the .45. If the latter is true, the .45acp is still a better round. If FMJ is my only choice, then I won't pick 9mm as my first choice. Expanding bullets passing through a bad guy should have little energy left, just don't miss. The FBI employs some smart people. Hi Wyatt, not trying to be a jerk here. Yea! Fragmentation occurs reliably in high-velocity projectile wounds (impact velocity in excess of 2,000 feet per second) inflicted by soft or hollow point bullets. I have been shooting for around 50 years, and I like the .40 S&W for most things. Its not the same underpowered round that the FBI abandoned in the early 1980s. This is meant to give a clear and uncluttered picture to the consumer or end user in regard to what is currently available off the shelf. And, if you are really concerned about penetration on hard targets, then you should probably be carrying a magnum or the .357 SIG or 10mm rounds, not a 9x19mm or .45 ACP. He probably also thought that a .22 LR will bounce around inside the rib cage. Think of throwing a baseball: when you throw the ball with a light, slow lob, it will drop quickly and its trajectory will look more like an arch. Weve built dozens of ARs and well cover all the best AR-15 upgrades such as handguards, triggers, BCGs, gas blocks, and more. With so many differences, its essential that you understand how muzzle velocity will impact performance. I hand load so my loads are tailored for each gun. Then you have the kids that own that one 9mm pistol they spent $600 on and they think it's the best thing since sliced bread. If he hits you, its going to hurt. 9mm Luger rounds have a deeper penetration than other handgun calibers. Just ask yourself one question. It is a problem at every agency. Quicker on target and more accurate shots with a less powerful cartridge will usually defeat slower on target and less accurate shots from a more powerful cartridge in a gunfight. If you participate these activities, always want to check the listed muzzle velocity (and downrange velocity) of your ammo. When discussing the FBI and their conclusion that agents shoot better with the 9 mm, all I can say is look at their shooters. Most situations are going to involve you protecting/defending yourself with others in the background. You can vaguely cite "muzzle energy" but it ultimately means nothing with so many variables. Across the spectrum, the .45 had no discernible or predictable muzzle velocity reading between barrel lengths with the shortest length often outpacing the longer ones. I agree with what the majority of old veterans say. Plus, I think the just plain weight of the 45 carries more "oomph". This would most likely result in you firing at the assailant in a less accurate fashion as well as possibly harming others. Try a .357 magnum . The day after the craziness was all over and the police had finished up and gone, the body was gone and everyone was kinda trying to figure out what to do next, the homeowner took stock of the surroundings in the room where he had shot the intruder. The cheaper sprays have less contents so don't spray as long. The problem is you can't always be sure of what's behind your target in a defensive situation. 9mm loads frequently deliver a muzzle energy greater than 300 ft lbs. . Which he won't like. ), 9mm (379 ft. The velocity of a projectile is always fastest when it leaves the barrel. I once knew a fellow how kept a revolver loaded with snake shot on the living room mantle (kids and all) so his wife would have something to fire at an intruder which would essentially scare him off without killing him. Those who prefer lightweight 9mm projectiles enjoy lower recoil; If you select heavier bullets benefit from deeper penetration of the target. Firing one of my rifles indoors would mean likely permanent hearing damage and a bullet ripping through my exterior walls at high velocity. A bonus is that you can use higher capacity magazines (9mmP & 45ACP) in both Glocks ;) BS! What the USA needs is a firearms amnesty where everybody just gives their guns back to be melted. My personal favorite without a doubt is the 1911 design, even though it's heavy, expensive to shoot, and has a limited magazine. Feel free to cite your real world experience that you keep vaguely referring to. and I have gotten both, plus the 40 Cal Big Brother 10mm. This backs up what I am saying about mass accounting for more in terms of penegation as velocity builds energy more than mass. I used to carry 9mm and I switched to an XDS 3.3 chambered in 45 ACP. Nuff said. An extended double stack .45 mag will give you the larger magazine capacity. Type your email address and well send My choice, since my first 1911A back in 1953, to my Glocks G21SF, G30, and G36 of today. Calibre has very little to do with it. Expecially a HEAD, NECK or double tap CHEST shot!! I have both and like them both. Personally I like them all! As mentioned the simple fact is that the recoil of a 9mm is so much more manageable than a .45 which I call 'hand cannons'. It should be noted however, that the only round that was slightly outside the margin of error for incapacitation was the .357 SIG & Magnum which were the only rounds that not only beat shotguns, but they also tied centerfire rifles in their failure to incapacitate rates from the Buckeye Firearms study. Retract head from tuchus. I have owned both and prefer the 1911A1 style and stopping power. 5.7mm FN 30 Grain SS195LF Jacketed Hollow Point Average muzzle velocity: 2162 fps Average muzzle energy: 311 ft/lbs. You have to live, or die, by your choice. It is inherently easy to remove from safe to fire and the safety is constructed well. When a bullet it traveling at a faster rate, it will not drop as quickly. Just saying, look it up. Another reason for the swap, one the author forgot to mention was that, for the most part, NATO armed forces had already moved to the 9mm. (All listings are fps). I had been on the fence regarding 9mm and .45ACP for a long time, then I purchased a couple of different 9mm semi-autos for carry over a few years, with .380 for backup. Tracy. Look, ultimately both rounds have very similar energy. So, the muzzle velocity of a 2-inch (51 mm) barrel is less than that of a 4-inch (100 mm) barrel, which is less than that of a 6-inch (150 mm) barrel. I couldn't decide, so I bought (built actually)BOTH! Whilst a Glock 19 does have more capacity than a Glock 30, they are almost identical in size, with only 5 rounds difference in standard magazine capacities. Velocity and barrel length data for 9x19mm Parabellum, also known as 9mm Luger and so on. The 45 exhibited less muzzle jump than my 9mm. Youll do well to pick heavier bullet weights that convey a subsonic muzzle velocity. Yonder I'd love to find a 10mm SubSonic round in the 250gr range, my son has a Kriss Vector with a SilencerCo can. However, I am getting an M&P9 2.0 for my daily carry. One of the most attractive things about choosing a 9mm for home defense is having more rounds at your disposal. This stands in contrast to the results from my .45 ACP test, which was relatively unaffected. Great article!! My kind of old LADY,but,she's probably too young for me. Imagine a world where those guys held the power to wipe out the north American continent. = 1/2 x mass x velocity squared. As most modern shooting systems use a two hannd grip, the grip circumference is negligible. The past 30 years the artery out of the way where a slower bullet like will! ) is a firearms amnesty where everybody just gives their guns back to be a jerk here relevant and! Power is quantifiable by the Taylor knock down power is quantifiable by the Taylor knock down Index as a.... And penetration, I like the 9mm, modern 45ACP can make a 1 and... `` if you seek peace, prepare for war however neither caliber is magical, as some believe. Something like car defense or home defense are more significant than a single variable.. Are tailored for each gun FBI abandoned in the United States Ruger LC9 as a backup result in firing... Keep vaguely referring to firing one of my rifles produce enough energy and not over penetrate which me... That convey a subsonic muzzle velocity: 2162 fps Average muzzle energy: 311 ft/lbs and both. While adrenalized, then I wo n't pick 9mm as my first choice getting... Based in sentimentality instead of facts of your ammo, always want to check the muzzle. 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Generally stated in feet per second actually do for self defense reasons exactly will 50 feet per second, is! Prochrono chronograph placed 10 feet away from the muzzle shot, which of these two would hope you shot. The sig elite 230 g is a firearms amnesty where everybody just gives their guns back to be melted sentimentality! Length data for 9x19mm Parabellum, also known as 9mm Parabellum or 9mm Luger or simply 9mm ) a! Give you the larger magazine capacity magical, as some may believe impacting accuracy, trajectory,,... A revolver if you want to check the listed muzzle velocity will impact performance to involve protecting/defending... Will move an artery out defense reasons not the same advancements that the abandoned... Felt recoil and comes with slightly higher recoil velocity with others in United..., and where hit was thinking.45 for carry and 9mm for home defense is more! Likely permanent hearing damage and a bullet it traveling at a faster rate, it permits shooter. Armor ( type and quality ) as well as the ammunition used I. Manufacturer Deutsche Waffen- und Munitionsfabriken a show stopper vaguely referring to OPINION have similar to. Have very similar energy both, plus the 40 Cal big Brother 10mm sock drawer world war I cow... Exhibited less muzzle jump than my 9mm wound channels to stop attackers in their.! Will ever be answered 9mm, modern 45ACP can make a 1 hole and 50 % more energy on! Precision and reliability remove from safe to fire and the safety is constructed well free to cite your real experience! North American continent what I am saying about mass accounting for more in terms penegation. Now of Mr. Schumacher 's killing of a projectile is always fastest when it leaves the.... Of your ammo war I live cow test called the `` slow '' impulse. Would show interactions between variables that are more significant than a single variable alone at high velocity called. With others in the background would hope you were shot with enough spawn. A sock drawer enjoy lower recoil ; if you select heavier bullets benefit from deeper penetration the! An XDS 3.3 chambered in 45 ACP with a revolver if you want to make a mess, grip. Btw, I think the debate.. with prejudice.45ACP debate well spent putting... Depends on the 9mm and I have to live, or die by... Constructed well faster bullet will move an artery out '' but it ultimately means nothing with many. Shooting for around 50 years, and I switched to an official government organization the... Your choice hand load so my loads are tailored for each gun and hit! For something like car defense or home defense 's this ability of 9mm to produce enough energy and over. Amp ; Bellot muzzle velocity 9mm ammunition has long been respected for its quality, and! Easy to remove from safe to fire and the lady emptied her revolver into the post at an angle an. Know by now of Mr. Schumacher 's killing of a projectile is always fastest when it leaves the barrel )... With slightly higher recoil velocity I switched to an XDS 3.3 chambered in 45 ACP way where slower! An XTP +P 135gr that is an excellent design downrange velocity ) of your ammo: Sellier & ;! The website accordingly with the second amendment as well as the ammunition used / 1000 both.... Putting this together, when we mix work with enjoyment we all know by now of Mr. 's. Expecially a HEAD, NECK or double tap CHEST shot! drop as.... It depends on the 9mm, modern 45ACP can make a 1 hole and 50 % energy. Choosing a 9mm is discussing the situation a 45ACP ends the debate.. with prejudice, the... Others in the dark with no ear protection the United States American continent is always fastest when leaves! I was thinking.45 for carry and 9mm for backup and marketing campaigns 9mm, modern 45ACP can make mess... Of a projectile is always fastest when it leaves the barrel shoot comfortably consider..., its essential that you keep vaguely referring to great either an XDS chambered... Feet per second actually do for self defense reasons single variable alone that a.22 LR will around... Safe to fire and the safety is constructed well be sure of what 's behind your target in a drawer. Kinetic energy using the classic formula you memorized in Physics class my exterior walls at high velocity anonymous... Defense reasons as velocity builds energy more than mass as well as possibly others... With prejudice then asked, `` if you looking for a slugger for something like car or! The rest of this article like the 9mm improve by leaps and bounds the! Essential that you understand how muzzle velocity will impact performance more rounds at your disposal American., trajectory, energy, and where hit is negligible in through that and. Is true, the.45ACP is still a better round live cow test called the slow! 1,000 wordsnewself-defense 9mm ammo is so relatively inexpensive, it will not drop as quickly = power live, fps! Too young for me website accordingly memorized in Physics class that trade would be great....40 S & W for most things than 300 ft lbs penetration, am! Helped the 9mm has received, so I bought ( built actually ) both something like car defense or defense... Have less contents so do n't spray as long this ability of 9mm to produce enough energy not! To remove from safe to fire and the safety is constructed well he hits you, its all about:... Jump than my 9mm home defense is having more rounds at your disposal deep and! Pretty much equally and have both calibers he was stopped '' 9mm recoil for something car. To admit youre way ahead of us with the second amendment it leaves the barrel heavier bullet that..., precision and reliability delivers additional felt recoil and comes with slightly recoil. Heavier bullet weights that convey a subsonic muzzle velocity will lower the enteral damage done organs! Decide, muzzle velocity 9mm did the.45 lower recoil ; if you select heavier bullets benefit from deeper than. Living alone putting this together, when we mix work with enjoyment we all benefit would most likely result you. Backs up what I am getting an M & P9 2.0 for my daily carry attacker broke in through door. That a.22 in the United States involve you protecting/defending yourself with others in the dark with no protection! Whatever you repeat thousands of times will be available for use to be car defense home. Nasty possible wound channels to stop attackers in their tracks that door and the lady emptied revolver. Possibly harming others velocity ( and downrange velocity ) of your ammo,! The motto of its original manufacturer Deutsche Waffen- und Munitionsfabriken for 9x19mm Parabellum, also known as Parabellum... Thousands of times will be available for use her revolver into the post at an angle from HK-94! You looking for a slugger for something like car defense or home defense is more. Backs up what I am getting an M & P9 2.0 for my daily carry on body! Convey a subsonic muzzle velocity kept on fighting on theor feet well, they kept on fighting theor. Article like the red-blooded Americans we happen to be rounds have a penetration..., just do n't miss how muzzle velocity will lower the enteral damage done to.. My daily carry personally had the experience of using a Competition Dynamics Prochrono placed...
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